February 6, 2012

Dumping China


The other day, I had a facebook chat with Derrick Bemis, a buddy from Oklahoma State. We got on the topic of China, debating how China would react or be effected by certain US actions. It was a great back and forth, and Derrick suggested a joint blog post, which I thought was a great idea. We then transferred the conversation to email and cleaned it up just a bit...

Before we jump into the post, I'd like to give a few definitions....

ASEAN - The Association of Southeastern Asian Nations. They've taken steps to organize in a more European Union fashion, with China/Russia playing big roles.

Dollar peg - A peg is a fixed exchange rate. In essence, China tries to keeps its currency value fixed to the value of the US dollar.

Yuan - the Chinese currency

QE - Quantitative Easing. The US policy by which we print more dollars, cheapening our currency. The goal is to encourage spending and in turn trigger growth. In reality, we've frustrated other countries and hurt the world economy.

And with no further delay, our conversation, with some editorial comments after the chat.




    • I know ... I was saying I am looking at the China contrarian issue
    • What if we decide that the "big bad wolf" isn't so big and so bad.
    • I have been guilty of arguing against a trade war. What if we called their bluff.
    • I think they need us as much, if not more, than we need them. Specially with the peg and now with ASEAN developing
  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • How would the ASEAN mean they need us more? I would think it'd mean the opposite
  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • They are the superpower in ASEAN for no other reason than the US Dollar peg
      we take away that peg, the countries start thinking... why are we using the YUAN?
      China's problem is now they are trying to become us, economically

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • Would they still not be super important in the ASEAN?

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • NOOOO
    • If they didn't have the peg, Russia would be the power.
    • Russia has a HELL OF LOT more pure assets their country can develop
      it's the reason China has been buying resources so frantically

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • I gotcha
      But it looks like no matter what China is gonna suffer
      With or without the US
  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • Do we suffer with them, or do we take the quick hit and leave them laying again

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • Yeah. But if China leaves us would that not be the first domino?

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • No.

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • I guess it's the dont get dumped, do the dumping theory?


  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • As long as we go to a better theory away from them (gold and silver and natural gas
    • reestablishment of our currnecy.
    • It will hurt the banks, but benefit the savers and the fixed income people

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • That'll never happen. We'll never base our currency off of something real

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • China is going to use us till they can't
    • everybody they tie to will use us till they can't (through China)
    • You will be surprised. Even Newt is "talking about it" (though I don't believe he would)
    • All the candidates on the Republican side are pushing for it except for Romney
    • But it is a start
    • if Romney wins and is terrible... more and more will come to the strong currency side

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • It'd be great. I just think there are more powers otherwise. Too much money
    • Idk that it matters. China and us are both screwed either way... Haha

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • China... if they continue to buy commodities at the peg .... they are making out like bandits

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • Actually if you're right that people are coming on the currency train... Maybe we have a chance.
    • As long as they're tied to us tho...

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • Right

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni

    • The Chinese can repress their people in a crisis.
    • Americans could never organize enough to "revolt"
    • The Chinese are getting poorer
      That middle class you mentioned is becoming poor again.


        • They repress their people.... but now that more and more are becoming middle class the people have more power.

      • 10 hours ago
        Kurtis Hanni
        • Well they WERE middle class.

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • They are getting richer asset wise and inturn real power wise.
      Only cause they slowed down because of the Europe issue and they are affraid of contagion

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • Hmm. Valid point.

    • In the end we might be saying the same thing. I think they'll cut the dollar to avoid a rising of the new poor. And then their new assets keep them afloat

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis

      • So WHAT IF... we preemptive strike with cutting the peg.
      • It would take that away and take away their power card in ASEAN

        they would still be powerful in ASEAN, but the would no longer have the ace in the hole

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • Hmm... I see your point now

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • It would hurt us momentarily

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • I think it'd almost have to certainly be paired with a backing for the dollar to not kill us

      That or massively paid off debt

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • EXACTLY
      if we do that COINCIDING with a strong dollar policy...

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
    • That'd be gold. Strong dollar itself would be enough to turn us away from disaster.

  • 10 hours ago
    Derrick Bemis
    • I think we figured out the theory to get away from China

  • 10 hours ago
    Kurtis Hanni
Yeah I think you're right


Now our editorial comments

Derrick 
My initial believe is that a trade war with China would greatly hurt the United States. However, I have recently taken a self-contrarian belief. Knowing countries, like people, have a self interest in mind. It seems theirs is not mutually beneficial. What if the best course of action IS to take on the Chinese issue head on and right now? What if it would be beneficial to take policies that would conflict with China?

Kurtis 
Initially I balked at Derrick's idea. But after some vetting it makes sense. With another QE on the horizon, and China currently shedding the dollar, the US is in a precarious position. You can see the storm coming... eventually China is going to get tired of our cheapened dollar and decide they want to go another way. At that point the US will be left with its pants down. Instead of playing defensive, the US needs to leave China out to dry. This action by itself would hurt the US long term. So how do you combat that? A strong dollar policy. You'd see immediate increased confidence from the US citizens and world governments. We'd be avoiding disasters on two fronts: our toxic relationship with the Chinese, and correcting our currently precarious dollar position.

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